Using All the advantages of ZunTzu

General discussion about ZunTzu in English.

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Woody8297
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Joined: 21 Feb 2012, 00:57
Location: CT

Using All the advantages of ZunTzu

Post by Woody8297 »

Hello fellow gamebox makers...

I'm probably going to take some flak for this post but I'm hoping it will spark some discussion on this forum.

ZunTzu is experiencing a much welcome resurgence thanks to the efforts of Ricky Perz, Jerome, and several other dedicated individuals. ZunTzu is a fantastic platform and it's good to see it grow. Thank you gentlemen for all your hard work.

Now for the "but"...

While I applaud the dramatic increase in the quantity of gameboxes offered, I'm not so enthused with the quality of some that I've opened. I'm talking about playability issues here. A lot of the gameboxes seem to be nothing more than scans of the game components...and that's fine if all you want to do is recreate what you get in a cardboard box. But ZunTzu is so much more than that. At the very, very least, a setup scenario should be offered so the players don't have to go through the drudgery of taking pieces from the countersheet and placing them into individual hexes or locations on the map. That's a nightmare to do with cardboard; you shouldn't have to do that electronically. Why put your gamebox audience through that? I think that a gamebox should open with a scenario already set up or have a selection of them ready to go.

Part of that setup should include the charts and tables that are needed to play the game. It's not enough to have them located on another tab, they should be able to be placed right next to the mapboard so a player can use them easily. I'm referring to ZunTzu's Terrain feature now. A Combat Results Table or Terrain Effects Chart should be scanned as a Terrain sheet so it can be moved from its tab and placed on the same screen as the game board. Really, anything that doesn't have to move should be made into a Terrain feature. Order of Appearance Cards, Turn Record Tracks--anything that counters need to be placed on--can be a Terrain feature. It's one of ZunTzu's greatest strengths...and not used nearly enough.

I was lucky that my introduction to ZunTzu was through Bill Barrett's D-Day gamebox. He had all the accessories called out as Terrain features and had them neatly aligned with the gamemap. I took apart his gamebox, looked at his xml and zts files and learned a lot. He was kind enough to answer questions too. (Thank you Bill.) If you open up any of his gameboxes you'll find a well thought out, ready to play game that uses all of ZunTzu's capabilities. Quality work.

That's what I think we, as gamebox makers, should strive for. It's more effort for sure but if ZunTzu's advantages are utilized, then the games are easier to play and, hopefully, more people will use ZunTzu to play them.

Rather than go on with my thoughts, I'll stop here and open this up to comments. I look forward to a polite discussion. Thanks.

Frank
maxfin
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Joined: 16 Feb 2022, 22:24

Re: Using All the advantages of ZunTzu

Post by maxfin »

Since I have uploaded several ZBTs of my own design in the last few days, I assume that Frank's criticism is directed, at least in part, at my work. Well, re-reading his post I realize that he is absolutely right. In fact, I did not make the most of the possibilities offered by the ZT platform. In fact, since ZT seemed abandoned and I didn't think that what I had done would be of use to others, my aim was only to archive my games electronically, and only in some cases to do some experiments. However, now that I see some movement around here, I'm more than willing to re-edit my files following Frank's advice. I think that ZT, already as it is, is an excellent platform, better in many respects than Cyberboard and Vassal, and I would like to be able to help spread it.
Max
Woody8297
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Re: Using All the advantages of ZunTzu

Post by Woody8297 »

Hi Max,

Thanks for your reply.

Actually I wasn't singling anyone out; I just wanted to spark a discussion on what our goals should be and then, maybe, how to make better boxes. Seems like the spark fizzled out. Too bad because I think ZunTzu will suffer for it.

My personal opinion is that without complete games to offer, ZunTzu isn't going to draw in the people who are interested in playing games. Players need the charts, tables, scenarios, setups, and dice(!) that are missing in too many of our gameboxes. Who can play that? Nobody. A player will go back to Vassal and never take the time to learn what ZunTzu can do.

So, no Max, I wasn't picking on you. And I sure appreciate what you meant about using ZunTzu for your own purposes. A couple of years ago I was feeling the same sense of doom and thinking that making a gamebox was a complete waste of time. But there's hope now and I'd hate to see ZunTzu miss a chance at a comeback because our gameboxes can't be played...and that's the case with a lot of gameboxes on our Files list.

Maybe a standard should be met before a gamebox can be posted. Bare minimum: map, counters, charts/tables, setup. Oh, and dice. Can't forget the dice. (Vassal gives you a text readout or an immediate change in the die picture. Yeech. How unsatisfying. Nobody does it better than Jerome's rolling dice! It's all about the suspense isn't it? Thanks Jerome. Little things do count.)

Any other opinions? Please post.

Frank
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Edgar
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Location: Pamplona, Navarra

Re: Using All the advantages of ZunTzu

Post by Edgar »

Sorry, but I have to disagree in some points :wink:

1. Charts & Tables: I usually have them as terrain in my own modules, so I can place them at convenience in the board, because I don't like to move through tabs only to look for some info, and in this one I agree with you. BUT, you can't ask that the public modules have tables and charts by default, because if it's available to the public it must also have the consent of the publisher or the designer, and some only agree to have the modules if they can't be abused for piracy... that's why a lot of them don't have that kind of information.

2. Setup: I agree that having setups and scenarios in the modules is a plus. But requiring the designers to add them if they want to upload the module could end up in having less modules. We could ask to the ZunTzu fans that if they play with a module that has no setup, and do on on their own, please send it (upload? update the module?). But I see it more as a courtesy of the designers/players, not a requirement.

3. Bare minimums: "map, counters, charts/tables, setup. Oh, and dice. Can't forget the dice." I agree completely with the map, counters and dice, because without that we don't have a module. Charts/tables if possible, sometimes it won't be. And setup... it would be nice.

I'm going to put a practical example: I did a module for Rome Inc. I had permission to do the module only if I didn't include the tables. And I included the setup of one of the scenarios, but scenarios were also information not available to people who didn't own the game, so no more than this one was included (and by courtesy/permission of the publisher).

For my own modules, no restriction. I guess that there are more ZunTzu modules not available to the public than what we think. At least I have a lot that I did with the designer permission for my own use, and I would like to share them, but I can't. Sure that some other people are in this situation.
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